To mark the month of International Women’s Day the Brass Band Conductors’ Association chose to host an online discussion on ‘Female conductors’ with an invited panel chaired by Sarah Groarke-Booth.
The invitation asked ‘Do you think we should see more female conductors in brass banding? Whilst the numbers may be growing, they are an under-represented group in our sector. Why is that and what can be done to increase their opportunities and encourage more women to take up the baton’?
Sarah put questions to a panel composed of Katrina Marzella (Conductor Kingdom Brass, former baritone player with Black Dyke), Mark Bromley (NYBBGB), Sarah McWatt (Director of AMP, formerly NYMAZ) and James Holt (BBCA Chair).
Having viewed the statistics around the number of female conductors taking part in area and national contests provided by Marrianne Garbutt, Sarah launched the discussion.
Low numbers
Reasons cited for the low numbers of female conductors, included childcare, taking a step back, women being more reticent and being more likely to doubt their capabilities compared to men. A higher proportion of female conductors in lower section bands.
Katrina Marzella was of the view that women with more experience in a band with a wealth of experience in their 30s/40s are ready to be conductors and that the conductor/leadership roles should be relative to the number of women involved in banding, estimated at around 30%.
Role models
James Holt commented that historically younger females were not seeing many female conductor role models to aspire to and sensed that we are beginning to see more females in these roles that will inspire the next generation. Some had never played under a female conductor. You can’t be what you can’t see.
Mark Bromley, speaking from his background in business said that the statistics for women in management are a lot higher than in banding. The NYBBGB has actively pushed the engagement of women conductors. When put to NYBBGB members they said they wanted to have high standards of conducting and diversity. In the period 2022-24 6 out of 13 of their conductors have been female.
Sarah McWatt from AMP have been involved in setting up mentoring placements for 2 young conductors with Katrina. “It is a brave thing for young people to do when you are in the minority.” She said it was important to provide other options for those who are not selected so they don’t take this as a knock-back.
Quality vs equity without tokenism
Whilst positively seeking to appoint and invite female conductors the balance has to be struck between numbers and credentials. However, it was thought that initially you have to positively push this until you see it. There was a need for advocacy.
Offering workshops and mentoring appeared key to bringing in new conductors and could be run by women as role models. Schemes just for women specifically to effect change was put forward despite a risk of being exclusive to others, as they are coming from a different starting point. Whilst the balance might sort itself out in future generations it could be slow.
Whilst many courses and opportunities are offered to young female conductors, as with men a large number of conductors fall into this role after considerable experience as a player, often because the conductor was absent on the day, and they were asked or volunteered to step in. It is essential to tap into the more mature women who might aspire to this role, and who may not put themselves forward or be chosen.
Funding and opportunities
The panel discussed the opportunities for bands to apply for funding to bring in female conductors, particularly at high levels. There were no female conductors at the Open this year – there could be a concert with a female conductor.
The BBCA conducting competition has had some very successful women, with CJ Wu, an online winner now conducting orchestras around the world. They have run ‘wand-waving’ workshops for young people taking part in youth champs and given feedback to conductors leading bands at Unibrass, of which about 6 were female.
Sarah Groarke-Booth invited questions from attendees:
Marrianne Garbutt suggested that equality vs equity is not happening fast enough, that women need male allies to promote them. The imbalance is also prevalent in other areas, such as sport.
Katrina described a scheme in Norway called ‘Maestra’ which is a positively targeted scheme to help women conductors at high levels which is well- supported, well-funded and professional, although as yet numbers of female conductors in Norway are low.
Iwan Fox believed that we should address exclusion and seek to break down the barriers.
Emma Smailes from Kirkbymoorside Town Brass Band, which has 125 players across 6 bands, all with female conductors, which she attributes to Kirkbymoorside being in the middle of nowhere and then being the best people for the job.
Cathy Rutherford, conductor of Wem Jubilee Band was keen for there to be conducting courses and opportunities for older ladies. She highlighted the male language used in banding: Top man, British Bandsman, Bandsman of the year award etc and called for a change and perhaps a campaign.
There was discussion about the need for targeted action from the top and the organisations involved and the need for them to collaborate. Also that the longer-term aspirations of younger people need to be taken into account.
Passion for action
Throughout the session there was a passion coming through to effect change through action and to agree some next steps. Katrina Marzella shared her plan for how this could be addressed along with ideas for each of these categories:
- Aspire – training and opportunities
- Inspire – Inspiration and visual
- Connect – support and networking
Sarah Groarke-Booth summed up this remarkably interesting session with the following points:
- Action is needed
- Networking is key
- Be radical and ambitious
- Engage those in power
- Offer incentives
- Culturally ingrained - engage as many people as possible
- Offer mentoring and workshops, not excluding more mature players who want to conduct.
Sarah Groarke-Booth studied music at University of Salford, gaining a BA (Hons) in Band Musicianship and an MA Performance (Conducting). Her association with brass bands over the past three decades has led her to direct bands in Wales, Bristol, London and the Northwest of England. She has had many contest successes, winning Regional and National titles.
The Brass Band Conductors’ Association is focused on providing support and bringing together conductors and those interested in picking up the baton from all over the world. BBCA’s 80+ members have access to a mentoring scheme; members' directory and a free professional DBS check alongside ongoing resources and peer support. Join the BBCA (with individual membership of Brass Bands England) for £50 a year.
For more information email bbca@bbe.org.uk